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	<title>Comments on: Should the British government apologise for the slave trade?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/</link>
	<description>"That was my Lo," she said, "and these are my lilies."</description>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-1230</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 11:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-1230</guid>
		<description>if nobody resisted slavery it would have carried on up till today, children would have followed in their fathers footsteps</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if nobody resisted slavery it would have carried on up till today, children would have followed in their fathers footsteps</p>
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		<title>By: E the Wise</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator>E the Wise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-670</guid>
		<description>oh, and our site is at www.constitutionclub.wordpress.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh, and our site is at <a href="http://www.constitutionclub.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.constitutionclub.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: E the Wise</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>E the Wise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-669</guid>
		<description>The idea of an apology is utterly ridiculous!  Here in the states the the topic of reparations comes up now and again and the topic is so devoid of serious policy that it is a mockery.  On our site we toss such ideas around because we compose a group of college buddies that are mixed between liberals and conservatives.  But even among the liberals, there is no real supporter of such foolishness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of an apology is utterly ridiculous!  Here in the states the the topic of reparations comes up now and again and the topic is so devoid of serious policy that it is a mockery.  On our site we toss such ideas around because we compose a group of college buddies that are mixed between liberals and conservatives.  But even among the liberals, there is no real supporter of such foolishness.</p>
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		<title>By: Blair, the slave trade and apologies &#171; Khanya</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-607</link>
		<dc:creator>Blair, the slave trade and apologies &#171; Khanya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 06:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-607</guid>
		<description>[...] This has led to quite a lot of discussion in the blogosphere, with some pointing out some of the advantages of the slave trade, and others supporting the call for an apology. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This has led to quite a lot of discussion in the blogosphere, with some pointing out some of the advantages of the slave trade, and others supporting the call for an apology. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-603</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-603</guid>
		<description>yucca, I think Steve did engage to the point that there&#039;s no point in apologising. That&#039;s the same point I&#039;ve been making. All the mental gymnastics of who should give and receive the apology aside, what is the actual point of apologising?

I&#039;ve left further thoughts and an extended reply to you on my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yucca, I think Steve did engage to the point that there&#8217;s no point in apologising. That&#8217;s the same point I&#8217;ve been making. All the mental gymnastics of who should give and receive the apology aside, what is the actual point of apologising?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve left further thoughts and an extended reply to you on my blog.</p>
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		<title>By: yucca</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>yucca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-599</guid>
		<description>steve,

you didn&#039;t really engage with my arguments... anyway, i don&#039;t need to tell you that the difference with iraq is that this government does not think it was wrong to bomb basra, while it does think it was wrong to practice the slave trade</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>steve,</p>
<p>you didn&#8217;t really engage with my arguments&#8230; anyway, i don&#8217;t need to tell you that the difference with iraq is that this government does not think it was wrong to bomb basra, while it does think it was wrong to practice the slave trade</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-596</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 05:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-596</guid>
		<description>My wife roared with laughter at the very idea. And in her ancestor&#039;s case, the apology would be due from the Dutch, if anyone, and the family og Pieter Hacker, who owned her, well actually her and her daughters, but the daughters were manumitted by one Johann Breitschuh, who married one of them. 

But seriously, I would not want to see Tony Blair going through the relatively undemanding exercise of confessing other people&#039;s sins. I would prefer that he did &lt;I&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; apologise for the slave trade, but rather apologise for the bombing of Belgrade and Basra -- or would it be better to wait 200 years for some representative of the Biritsh government then (if there is still a British government then) to apologise for the actions of the belligerent Mr Blair?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife roared with laughter at the very idea. And in her ancestor&#8217;s case, the apology would be due from the Dutch, if anyone, and the family og Pieter Hacker, who owned her, well actually her and her daughters, but the daughters were manumitted by one Johann Breitschuh, who married one of them. </p>
<p>But seriously, I would not want to see Tony Blair going through the relatively undemanding exercise of confessing other people&#8217;s sins. I would prefer that he did <i>not</i> apologise for the slave trade, but rather apologise for the bombing of Belgrade and Basra &#8212; or would it be better to wait 200 years for some representative of the Biritsh government then (if there is still a British government then) to apologise for the actions of the belligerent Mr Blair?</p>
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		<title>By: yucca</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-592</link>
		<dc:creator>yucca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-592</guid>
		<description>@steve

P.S. i wouldn&#039;t mind hearing what your wife thinks of the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@steve</p>
<p>P.S. i wouldn&#8217;t mind hearing what your wife thinks of the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: yucca</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-591</link>
		<dc:creator>yucca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-591</guid>
		<description>Hi Steve

There are two interesting aspects to your question: the first is whether the fact that she is descendent from a slave is sufficient to deserve an apology; the second is who should do or say what to her.

On the first point, i think that there are two conditions that are sufficient: if she is materially worse off because of the fact that she is descendent from a slave, then, irrespectively of whether she wants an apology or not, she deserves one. Otherwise, even if she is not materially affected by it, if she feels the burden of it, as in, if she wants an apology, i think, again, that she deserves one.

On the point of who should issue such an apology, that is difficult. As I say in the post, if there are, alive, any representatives of people that either were involved in the slave trade, or profited from the slave trade, then those people owe her an apology. One such category is people that are profiting today from the wealth their family has accumulated through slave trade. If such people exist, they owe your wife an apology.

Then the question is what counts as representing people involved with the slave trade. I don&#039;t think that ancestry is sufficient: you should not necessarily apologise for something that your ancestors did; you ought to do it, only if by your condition or your behaviour, you show that you either profited from their actions, or that you don&#039;t disapprove of your actions. So family won&#039;t do. But,as i argue in the post, the government of today has a relationship to previous government that goes far beyond family relationship. It represents previous government: that is, it is the closest thing we have today to previous governments. Closer, say, than discendants of members of previous cabinets.

There is an interesting philosophical question with all this, which i only touch upon in the post: that there might be a middle ground between being sorry, and saying &quot;i&#039;m sorry&quot;, and apologising. so that, if you are responsible for x, and x harmed someone, you ought to apologise to them. while, if you are responsible for x, i don&#039;t have to apologise to the person harmed, but i still ought to feel sorry for them. this is the straightforward case. but it might be that slavery, or cases in which you are the accidental cause of some harm, call for something more than saying &quot;i&#039;m sorry&quot;, but less than an apology. what might that be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve</p>
<p>There are two interesting aspects to your question: the first is whether the fact that she is descendent from a slave is sufficient to deserve an apology; the second is who should do or say what to her.</p>
<p>On the first point, i think that there are two conditions that are sufficient: if she is materially worse off because of the fact that she is descendent from a slave, then, irrespectively of whether she wants an apology or not, she deserves one. Otherwise, even if she is not materially affected by it, if she feels the burden of it, as in, if she wants an apology, i think, again, that she deserves one.</p>
<p>On the point of who should issue such an apology, that is difficult. As I say in the post, if there are, alive, any representatives of people that either were involved in the slave trade, or profited from the slave trade, then those people owe her an apology. One such category is people that are profiting today from the wealth their family has accumulated through slave trade. If such people exist, they owe your wife an apology.</p>
<p>Then the question is what counts as representing people involved with the slave trade. I don&#8217;t think that ancestry is sufficient: you should not necessarily apologise for something that your ancestors did; you ought to do it, only if by your condition or your behaviour, you show that you either profited from their actions, or that you don&#8217;t disapprove of your actions. So family won&#8217;t do. But,as i argue in the post, the government of today has a relationship to previous government that goes far beyond family relationship. It represents previous government: that is, it is the closest thing we have today to previous governments. Closer, say, than discendants of members of previous cabinets.</p>
<p>There is an interesting philosophical question with all this, which i only touch upon in the post: that there might be a middle ground between being sorry, and saying &#8220;i&#8217;m sorry&#8221;, and apologising. so that, if you are responsible for x, and x harmed someone, you ought to apologise to them. while, if you are responsible for x, i don&#8217;t have to apologise to the person harmed, but i still ought to feel sorry for them. this is the straightforward case. but it might be that slavery, or cases in which you are the accidental cause of some harm, call for something more than saying &#8220;i&#8217;m sorry&#8221;, but less than an apology. what might that be?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-590</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://insatiableyucca.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/should-the-british-government-apologies-for-the-slave-trade/#comment-590</guid>
		<description>My wife is descended from a slave. 

Should someone apologise to her? 

If so, who?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife is descended from a slave. </p>
<p>Should someone apologise to her? </p>
<p>If so, who?</p>
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